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    Misschien dat je zelf eens de moeite moet nemen op mumble langs te
    komen? Roepen vanaf de zijlijn is totaal niet productief<br>
    <br>
    Roland<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25/09/2013 19:10, roberto aka robske
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAOXUHSdeczux-r6x68b7sP4ma+U_HHXUur_xc50um8rcqpKnWA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Die discussies vinden daar al maandenlang plaats
        zonder gewenst resultaat voor deze personen. Bij gebrek aan een
        acceptabel compromis of resultaat zullen mensen gefrustreerd
        raken. En uit frustratie doen die mensen dan vaak een shitstorm
        ontketenen.
        <div>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div>Dit wordt natuurlijk dan niet in dank afgenomen, maar het
          doet niks af aan de validiteit van de vragen.</div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">2013/9/25 Biervat <span dir="ltr"><<a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:piraatbiervat@gmail.com" target="_blank">piraatbiervat@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
              <div>tja stel da ik je nu gelijk geef, kunnen we de
                discussie dan voortaan op wat meer besloten lijsten
                houden en anders in de BV of LR behandelen die wekelijks
                plaatsvinden en openbaar zijn, informatie over mumble
                staat op de wiki.<br>
                <br>
                Groet, Raymond
                <div class="im"><br>
                  <pre cols="72">Biervat
"vrijwilligers werk is ook werk, hup aan t werk"</pre>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div class="h5"> On 25-9-2013 18:55, roberto aka
                    robske wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div class="h5">
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div dir="ltr">Verschil van gezichtspunt.
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>Er is geen exacte definitie van
                        kwaadaardigheid. Het is relatief aan welke
                        dingen er bekend zijn bij je, je verteld zijn en
                        je eigen ervaringen. Dit betekent niet dat dit
                        dan de absolute definitie van kwaadaardigheid of
                        goedaardigheid is. Echter is er meer dan 2000
                        jaren lang al propaganda die je wilt overtuigen
                        dat er harde definities van kwaadaardigheid en
                        goedaardigheid zijn.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>Dit is trouwens vaak ook een moeilijk veld in
                        ethiek ;) En moet dan ook casus per casus
                        bekeken worden door een neutraal persoon.</div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">2013/9/25 Biervat <span
                          dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:piraatbiervat@gmail.com"
                            target="_blank">piraatbiervat@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                            <div>wanneer je zon shitstorm op de algemene
                              mailinglijst plaatst ben je niet
                              reasonable, dan beschadig je doelbewust de
                              partij.
                              <div><br>
                                <br>
                                <pre cols="72">Biervat
"vrijwilligers werk is ook werk, hup aan t werk"</pre>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <div> On 25-9-2013 18:48, roberto aka
                                  robske wrote:<br>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div dir="ltr">Nee, Samir en jij zijn
                                    beide "reasonable". Dat jullie
                                    elkaar niet echt mogen staat daar
                                    los van.</div>
                                  <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                    <br>
                                    <div class="gmail_quote">2013/9/25
                                      Biervat <span dir="ltr"><<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:piraatbiervat@gmail.com"
                                          target="_blank">piraatbiervat@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
                                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                        style="margin:0 0 0
                                        .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                        solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                        <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
                                          text="#000000">
                                          <div>misschien moet ik dat dan
                                            ook maar niet met jou
                                            proberen te doen.
                                            <div><br>
                                              <pre cols="72">Biervat
"vrijwilligers werk is ook werk, hup aan t werk"</pre>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div> On 25-9-2013 18:46,
                                                Core TX wrote:<br>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                <div dir="ltr"><a
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/prescriptions-life/201201/dont-try-reason-unreasonable-people"
                                                    target="_blank">http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/prescriptions-life/201201/dont-try-reason-unreasonable-people</a>\<br>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>Lees regel 1 :)</div>
                                                </div>
                                                <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                  <br>
                                                  <div
                                                    class="gmail_quote">Op
                                                    25 september 2013
                                                    18:40 schreef
                                                    roberto aka robske <span
                                                      dir="ltr"><<a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:evilteddyxl@gmail.com" target="_blank">evilteddyxl@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      class="gmail_quote"
                                                      style="margin:0 0
                                                      0
                                                      .8ex;border-left:1px
                                                      #ccc
                                                      solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                      <div dir="ltr">Tijd
                                                        om maar eens die
                                                        bestuursvergadering
                                                        te enteren met
                                                        zwaard in de
                                                        hand?</div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="gmail_extra">
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">2013/9/25


                                                          Caspar
                                                          Safarlou <span
                                                          dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:safarlou@live.nl" target="_blank">safarlou@live.nl</a>></span><br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
                                                          style="margin:0
                                                          0 0
                                                          .8ex;border-left:1px
                                                          #ccc
                                                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">ARRRR!<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <hr>Date: Wed,
                                                          25 Sep 2013
                                                          18:32:06 +0200<br>
                                                          From: <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:piraatbiervat@gmail.com" target="_blank">piraatbiervat@gmail.com</a><br>
                                                          To: <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
                                                          Subject: Re:
                                                          [Algemeen]
                                                          Verzoek voor
                                                          PoepStorm.
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div>komop
                                                          man, kap hier
                                                          toch eens mee.<br>
                                                          Vraag het
                                                          desnoods
                                                          straks in de
                                                          bestuursvergadering
                                                          maar hou toch
                                                          eens op met
                                                          deze onzin. <br>
                                                          De LR is toch
                                                          al van plan om
                                                          namens de
                                                          gehele LR iets
                                                          in te dienen.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          hou maar
                                                          gewoon even op
                                                          met
                                                          aandachtzoeken,
                                                          dat doe je
                                                          maar vanavond
                                                          bij de
                                                          bestuursvergadering.<br>
                                                          <pre>Biervat
"vrijwilligers werk is ook werk, hup aan t werk"</pre>
                                                          On 25-9-2013
                                                          18:25, Core TX
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>Geachte
                                                          Leden van
                                                          PiratenPartij
                                                          Nederland,</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          Reeds 22
                                                          September, en
                                                          een aantal
                                                          data in het
                                                          verleden heeft
                                                          *een*
                                                          Ledenraad lid
                                                          de volgende
                                                          <div>vragen
                                                          aan het
                                                          bestuur
                                                          voorgelegd.</div>
                                                          <div> <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>###################################################################</div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>Geacht
                                                          Bestuur en
                                                          Penningmeester,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          Aangezien u
                                                          tot op heden
                                                          heeft verzuimd
                                                          om een
                                                          voorstel
                                                          begroting 2013
                                                          voor te leggen
                                                          aan de
                                                          ledenraad
                                                          verzoek ik u
                                                          mij te
                                                          voorzien van
                                                          een financieel
                                                          overzicht van
                                                          de huidige
                                                          financiele
                                                          stand van
                                                          zaken,
                                                          waaronder ik
                                                          het volgende
                                                          wil terugzien:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <ol>
                                                          <li>Huidig
                                                          saldo van onze
                                                          bankrekeningen
                                                          1083.78.969 en
                                                          1729.29.105</li>
                                                          <li>Overzicht
                                                          van alle
                                                          contracten die
                                                          wij in 2013
                                                          zijn aangegaan
                                                          namens de
                                                          Piratenpartij
                                                          waaraan we nu
                                                          vast zitten.
                                                          Inclusief de
                                                          maandelijkse
                                                          lasten en de
                                                          opzegtermijn
                                                          van deze
                                                          contracten.<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>Overzicht
                                                          van eventuele
                                                          nieuwe
                                                          bankrekeningen
                                                          die zijn
                                                          geopend op
                                                          naam van de
                                                          Piratenpartij
                                                          het saldo en
                                                          jaarlijkse
                                                          kosten
                                                          hiervan.<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>Overzicht
                                                          van onze
                                                          huidige
                                                          bitcoin saldo
                                                          (en overzicht
                                                          gemaakte
                                                          transacties)<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>Overzicht
                                                          van onze
                                                          huidige paypal
                                                          saldo (en
                                                          overzicht
                                                          gemaakte
                                                          transacties)<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>Overzicht
                                                          van onkosten
                                                          gemaakt voor
                                                          de partij en
                                                          waarvoor
                                                          (drukwerk,
                                                          reizen e.d.)</li>
                                                          <li>Overzicht
                                                          van nog
                                                          openstaande
                                                          rekeningen en
                                                          schulden die
                                                          nog niet zijn
                                                          afgelost en
                                                          wanneer ze
                                                          uiterlijk
                                                          afgelost
                                                          moeten worden.</li>
                                                          </ol>
                                                          Graag
                                                          uiterlijk op
                                                          woensdag 25
                                                          september 2013
                                                          voor 23:00u
                                                          deze vragen
                                                          naar WAARHEID
                                                          te
                                                          beantwoorden.</div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">###################################################</div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Nu is aan
                                                          U het verzoek
                                                          om een interne
                                                          rel te trappen
                                                          binnen de
                                                          partij wanneer
                                                          de data niet
                                                          voor 23:00 is
                                                          overlegd.</div>
                                                          <div>Het zou
                                                          de partij
                                                          immers grote
                                                          schade doen
                                                          wanneer het
                                                          Ledenraad lid
                                                          dat de
                                                          bovenstaande
                                                          vragen aan het
                                                          bestuur heeft
                                                          gericht naar
                                                          de rechtbank
                                                          stapt.</div>
                                                          <div>Dit is
                                                          iets wat ik
                                                          middels deze
                                                          mail wens te
                                                          voorkomen.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Vriendelijke


                                                          groet,</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Samir Allioui</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <fieldset></fieldset>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <pre>_______________________________________________
Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a>
</pre>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          _______________________________________________
Algemeen



                                                          discussielijst
                                                          |
                                                          Piratenpartij
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen"
                                                          target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          Algemeen
                                                          discussielijst
                                                          |
                                                          Piratenpartij<br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen"
                                                          target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br
                                                          clear="all">
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <span><font
                                                          color="#888888">--

                                                          <br>
                                                          Roberto
                                                          Moretti<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          PPNL Member
                                                          & Indie
                                                          Games
                                                          Developer.<br>
                                                          @robskemoretti<br>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                      Algemeen
                                                      discussielijst |
                                                      Piratenpartij<br>
                                                      <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
                                                      <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen"
                                                        target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a><br>
                                                      <br>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <br>
                                                </div>
                                                <br>
                                                <fieldset></fieldset>
                                                <br>
                                                <pre>_______________________________________________
Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a>
</pre>
                                              </blockquote>
                                              <br>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                        Algemeen discussielijst |
                                        Piratenpartij<br>
                                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl"
                                          target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
                                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen"
                                          target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a><br>
                                        <br>
                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
                                    <br>
                                    <br clear="all">
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    -- <br>
                                    Roberto Moretti<br>
                                    <br>
                                    PPNL Member & Indie Games
                                    Developer.<br>
                                    @robskemoretti<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <br>
                                  <fieldset></fieldset>
                                  <br>
                                  <pre>_______________________________________________
Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a>
</pre>
                                </blockquote>
                                <br>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                          Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij<br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl"
                            target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen"
                            target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a><br>
                          <br>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <br clear="all">
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      -- <br>
                      Roberto Moretti<br>
                      <br>
                      PPNL Member & Indie Games Developer.<br>
                      @robskemoretti<br>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                    <fieldset></fieldset>
                    <br>
                    <pre>_______________________________________________
Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a>
</pre>
                  </blockquote>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij<br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen"
              target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a><br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
        Roberto Moretti<br>
        <br>
        PPNL Member & Indie Games Developer.<br>
        @robskemoretti<br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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