<div dir="ltr">Dat is de vorige keer gebeurd. Zonder resultaat. Bij deze garantie van het bestuur.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/8/28 Steven Russchenberg | Piratenpartij <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:steven.russchenberg@piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">steven.russchenberg@piratenpartij.nl</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div>Eerst naar het juiste orgaan. Dan
      hogerop zoeken.<br>
      <br>
      Op 28-8-2013 22:52, roberto aka robske schreef:<br>
    </div><div><div class="h5">
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Begrijpend lezen graag. Ga naar mijn eerste mail.
        Ik stel daar vragen niet alleen over de ALV zelf, maar ook over
        de aankondiging e.d. Kandidaatstelling enzo.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Los ervan, ik houd niet ervan om steeds naar een ander
          doorverwezen te worden. Ik wijs het bestuur aan als diegenen
          die hierin garanties moeten bieden. Ja ze delegeren. Maar ze
          moeten dan ook het proces wat ze delegeren in de gaten houden.
          Mits het niet goed verloopt blijven zij eindverantwoordelijk.
          En die verantwoording kan op verschillende manieren genomen
          worden, mede afhankelijk van hoe het proces verlopen is.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Maar simpelweg zeggen van "Wij hebben daar geen
          verantwoording over omdat het Presidium dit organiseert" is
          voor mij een drogreden.</div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          2013/8/28 Biervat <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:piraatbiervat@gmail.com" target="_blank">piraatbiervat@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
              <div>Dat was nadat JIJ het op algemeen gooide, en dat is
                ongepast.<br>
                <br>
                Als jij dingen heb voor de ALV zijn die voor t
                presidium, en niet voor t bestuur, is dat moeilijk te
                begrijpen?
                <div><br>
                  <pre cols="72">Biervat - Piratenpartij Eindhoven/Ledenraad
"vrijwilligers werk is ook werk, hup aan t werk"</pre>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div> On 28-8-2013 22:45, roberto aka
                    robske wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div dir="ltr">Ik hou niet van dreigementen. En als
                      je denkt dat het bestuur mij erom gaat straffen,
                      let them try.
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>De exacte organisatie van de ALV ligt bij het
                        presidium ja. Maar er liggen ook stukken van
                        mijn vragen zeer duidelijk bij het bestuur. En
                        daar vraag ik een duidelijke uitspraak over waar
                        ik ze aan kan houden.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>Indien ik dus dat niet voor 17 september heb,
                        is het duidelijk genoeg voor mij en anderen.</div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">2013/8/28 Biervat <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:piraatbiervat@gmail.com" target="_blank">piraatbiervat@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                            <div>Robske, ik vind het absoluut ongepast
                              dat je privécommunicatie publiceert, en ik
                              zie verder ook niets mis met die
                              privécommunicatie, want schijnbaar heb jij
                              geen idee wat het presidium doet en wat
                              een bestuur is, het bestuur ORGANISEERT
                              niet maar DELEGEERT en het PRESIDIUM is
                              verantwoordelijk voor de organisatie van
                              de ALV.<br>
                              <br>
                              snap je het nu? of moet ik je nog meer
                              uitleggen? ik zal je nog eens helpen man,
                              lekker vriendelijk iemand helpen in de
                              partij en toch nog te woord staan komt dus
                              op deze idioterie te staan? ik zou bijna
                              naar de VVD vertrekken, en jij bent altijd
                              zo diehard principieel, lutser.
                              <div><br>
                                <pre cols="72">Biervat - Piratenpartij Eindhoven/Ledenraad
"vrijwilligers werk is ook werk, hup aan t werk"</pre>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <div> On 28-8-2013 22:38, roberto aka
                                  robske wrote:<br>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div dir="ltr">Het was een antwoord
                                    betreffende deze mail dat je gaf.
                                    Bij deze kan mogelijke "straf" ook
                                    wat mij betreft aan mijn derrière
                                    oxideren.</div>
                                  <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                    <br>
                                    <div class="gmail_quote"> 2013/8/28
                                      Biervat <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:piraatbiervat@gmail.com" target="_blank">piraatbiervat@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
                                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                        <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                                          <div>maar dan hoef je nog geen
                                            privécommunicatie over een
                                            mailinglijst en forum te
                                            gooien, je weet dat dit niet
                                            gewaardeerd word binnen de
                                            partij.
                                            <div><br>
                                              <pre cols="72">Biervat - Piratenpartij Eindhoven/Ledenraad
"vrijwilligers werk is ook werk, hup aan t werk"</pre>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div> On 28-8-2013 22:34,
                                                roberto aka robske
                                                wrote:<br>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                <div dir="ltr">Het is
                                                  niet piraatwaardig om
                                                  niet "Accountable" te
                                                  zijn. Bij deze dus ook
                                                  een eis dat het
                                                  bestuur antwoord geeft
                                                  en garanties geeft. </div>
                                                <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                  <br>
                                                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                                                    2013/8/28 Biervat <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:piraatbiervat@gmail.com" target="_blank">piraatbiervat@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
                                                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                      <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                                                        <div>die raymond
                                                          klinkt als een
                                                          verstandige
                                                          kerel, ik zou
                                                          gewoon wachten
                                                          op de reactie
                                                          van het
                                                          presidium en
                                                          niet meer
                                                          zomaar
                                                          privéchats op
                                                          de algemene
                                                          lijst zetten,
                                                          dat is niet
                                                          piraatwaardig.
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <pre cols="72">Biervat - Piratenpartij Eindhoven/Ledenraad
"vrijwilligers werk is ook werk, hup aan t werk"</pre>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div> On
                                                          28-8-2013
                                                          22:29, roberto
                                                          aka robske
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>[10:12:01
                                                          PM] raymond
                                                          van vugt: ik
                                                          zal even snel
                                                          wat antwoorden</div>
                                                          <div>[10:12:05
                                                          PM] raymond
                                                          van vugt: ja
                                                          is idd 17
                                                          november de
                                                          alv</div>
                                                          <div>[10:12:41
                                                          PM] raymond
                                                          van vugt:
                                                          presidium is
                                                          verantwoordelijk
                                                          voor de
                                                          organisatie
                                                          maar zal
                                                          natuurlijk in
                                                          samenspraak
                                                          met mij en bob
                                                          gebeuren (wij
                                                          organiseren t
                                                          weekend
                                                          eromheen en de
                                                          locatie in dit
                                                          geval)</div>
                                                          <div>[10:13:13
                                                          PM] raymond
                                                          van vugt: maar
                                                          bestuur heeft
                                                          dus niets met
                                                          de organisatie
                                                          van de ALV van
                                                          doen, al
                                                          houden ze t
                                                          wel in de
                                                          gaten</div>
                                                          <div>[10:18:13
                                                          PM] Roberto /
                                                          Kristi: oke ;)</div>
                                                          <div>[10:24:14
                                                          PM] raymond
                                                          van vugt:
                                                          tevree?:P</div>
                                                          <div>[10:26:33
                                                          PM] Roberto /
                                                          Kristi: nee :P</div>
                                                          <div>[10:26:38
                                                          PM] Roberto /
                                                          Kristi: maar
                                                          ik hoor het
                                                          van het
                                                          bestuur wel</div>
                                                          <div>[10:27:09
                                                          PM] raymond
                                                          van vugt: je
                                                          hoort niets:P</div>
                                                          <div>[10:27:25
                                                          PM] raymond
                                                          van vugt: maar
                                                          heb t naar t
                                                          presidium
                                                          gezonden, die
                                                          kan jou
                                                          antwoord geven</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>----</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Bij deze
                                                          wil ik een
                                                          antwoord van
                                                          het bestuur.
                                                          Klaar. Basta.
                                                          Geen
                                                          doorverwijzen
                                                          naar andere
                                                          organen.</div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div class="gmail_quote">2013/8/28


                                                          Biervat <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:piraatbiervat@gmail.com" target="_blank">piraatbiervat@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
                                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                                                          <div>dat is
                                                          voor het
                                                          presidium en
                                                          heb hem dan
                                                          ook deze
                                                          doorgemaild<br>
                                                          <pre cols="72">Biervat - Piratenpartij Eindhoven/Ledenraad
"vrijwilligers werk is ook werk, hup aan t werk"</pre>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div> On
                                                          28-8-2013
                                                          22:06, roberto
                                                          aka robske
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">Ahoy,


                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Ik wou
                                                          vragen hoe het
                                                          met de
                                                          voortgang van
                                                          de
                                                          voorbereidingen
                                                          van de ALV
                                                          zit.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Gezien
                                                          dat er al op
                                                          allerlei
                                                          kanalen 17
                                                          november als
                                                          ALV datum
                                                          genoemd wordt
                                                          (waaronder de
                                                          IRC), zal ik
                                                          die datum
                                                          aanhouden voor
                                                          de specifieke
                                                          onderdelen van
                                                          de
                                                          voorbereiding:</div>
                                                          <div>- Hoe zit
                                                          het met de
                                                          aankondiging
                                                          van de ALV
                                                          zelf met
                                                          plaats, tijd
                                                          en datum? Gaat
                                                          dat lukken
                                                          voor 17
                                                          oktober?</div>
                                                          <div>- Gezien
                                                          dat de
                                                          aankondiging
                                                          17 oktober
                                                          hoort plaats
                                                          te vinden,
                                                          zullen
                                                          kandidaatstellingen
                                                          een maand van
                                                          te voren
                                                          opengesteld
                                                          moeten worden.
                                                          Tenminste, als
                                                          men
                                                          geïnformeerde
                                                          besluiten wilt
                                                          kunnen nemen.
                                                          Gaat dit
                                                          lukken op/voor
                                                          17 september?</div>
                                                          <div>- Gezien
                                                          een aangenomen
                                                          motie op de
                                                          ALV van 2011
                                                          het verplicht
                                                          stelt tot
                                                          online
                                                          participatie,
                                                          wil ik
                                                          tenminste een
                                                          mogelijkheid
                                                          zien voor een
                                                          livestream.
                                                          Gaat deze
                                                          verplichting
                                                          die sinds 2011
                                                          geldt
                                                          eindelijk eens
                                                          uitgevoerd
                                                          worden?</div>
                                                          <div>- Hoe zit
                                                          het met
                                                          amendementen
                                                          op ALV
                                                          voorstellen
                                                          tijdens de
                                                          ALV?<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>- Hoe
                                                          wilt men gaan
                                                          zorgen dat de
                                                          komende ALV
                                                          niet een
                                                          fiasco wordt
                                                          als de ALV's
                                                          in 2012?</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Ik wil
                                                          hier graag
                                                          antwoord op
                                                          zien vanuit
                                                          het bestuur
                                                          over Algemeen.
                                                          Dient
                                                          tegelijkertijd
                                                          als
                                                          herinnering
                                                          dat deze
                                                          punten
                                                          eindelijk eens
                                                          goed horen te
                                                          gaan.</div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          -- <br>
                                                          Roberto
                                                          Moretti<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          PPNL Member
                                                          & Indie
                                                          Games
                                                          Developer.<br>
                                                          @robskemoretti<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <fieldset></fieldset>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <pre>_______________________________________________
Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij
<a href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>
<a href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a>
</pre>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          Algemeen
                                                          discussielijst
                                                          |
                                                          Piratenpartij<br>
                                                          <a href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
                                                          <a href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br clear="all">
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          -- <br>
                                                          Roberto
                                                          Moretti<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          PPNL Member
                                                          & Indie
                                                          Games
                                                          Developer.<br>
                                                          @robskemoretti<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <fieldset></fieldset>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <pre>_______________________________________________
Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij
<a href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>
<a href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a>
</pre>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                      Algemeen
                                                      discussielijst |
                                                      Piratenpartij<br>
                                                      <a href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
                                                      <a href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a><br>
                                                      <br>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <br>
                                                  <br clear="all">
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  -- <br>
                                                  Roberto Moretti<br>
                                                  <br>
                                                  PPNL Member &
                                                  Indie Games Developer.<br>
                                                  @robskemoretti<br>
                                                </div>
                                                <br>
                                                <fieldset></fieldset>
                                                <br>
                                                <pre>_______________________________________________
Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij
<a href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>
<a href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a>
</pre>
                                              </blockquote>
                                              <br>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                        Algemeen discussielijst |
                                        Piratenpartij<br>
                                        <a href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
                                        <a href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a><br>
                                        <br>
                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
                                    <br>
                                    <br clear="all">
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    -- <br>
                                    Roberto Moretti<br>
                                    <br>
                                    PPNL Member & Indie Games
                                    Developer.<br>
                                    @robskemoretti<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <br>
                                  <fieldset></fieldset>
                                  <br>
                                  <pre>_______________________________________________
Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij
<a href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>
<a href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a>
</pre>
                                </blockquote>
                                <br>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                          Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij<br>
                          <a href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
                          <a href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a><br>
                          <br>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <br clear="all">
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      -- <br>
                      Roberto Moretti<br>
                      <br>
                      PPNL Member & Indie Games Developer.<br>
                      @robskemoretti<br>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                    <fieldset></fieldset>
                    <br>
                    <pre>_______________________________________________
Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij
<a href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>
<a href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a>
</pre>
                  </blockquote>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij<br>
            <a href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
            <a href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a><br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
        Roberto Moretti<br>
        <br>
        PPNL Member & Indie Games Developer.<br>
        @robskemoretti<br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij
<a href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl" target="_blank">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a>
<a href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    </div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><pre cols="72">-- 
Ledenraadslid Piratenpartij Nederland (PPNL)
Bestuurslid Piratenpartij Leiden</pre>
  </font></span></div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Algemeen discussielijst | Piratenpartij<br>
<a href="mailto:Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl">Algemeen@lists.piratenpartij.nl</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen" target="_blank">https://lists.piratenpartij.nl/mailman/listinfo/algemeen</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Roberto Moretti<br><br>PPNL Member & Indie Games Developer.<br>@robskemoretti<br>
</div>